@deepmud i'm neither left or right wing. I just disapprove of killing another person for reasons that amount to he's rich so he should die.
i understand
and, in the terms of your own rationale, and as i asked you before, but you did not respond:
please provide your moral judgment on a "healthcare" system that creates suffering, impoverishment and death for profit
is there a reason why you speak with such high holy moral certainty, but you can't, or won't, speak on that?
it seems rather central to the topic here, no?
@benroyce@mastodon.social"it doesn't give anyone the right to be the judge, jury, and executioner"
you're speaking of the "#healthcare" system that debilitates, bankrupts, and *kills*
for #profit
right?
i am not asking you to support #luigi
i am asking you, simply:
do you think there will never be pushback?
and if pushback through normal, legal means is stymied
by the parasites profiting here
via #corruption
do you think that pushback will just magically disappear?
please think on this:
@benroyce @deepmud Quite frankly, I feel healthcare should be 100% nationalized by the government and taken away from the private sector, while also keeping the other sectors private, because healthcare is a right, not a privilege, and no less. In saying this, I'm also a capitalist and will never change my view on that stance. I believe in a free market and nothing will change this.
#plutocracy corrupts our legislative process, preventing #universalHealthcare
i didn't say #capitalism
i won't argue with you on that: capitalism in the idealized view is about free markets
this is about rent seeking #parasites
right?
now please listen:
if normal legal means for change are blocked by #corruption
then *violence becomes inevitable*
so i am not asking you to embrace #luigiMangione
i am asking you to see #luigi as inevitable
there will be many more luigis
@benroyce @deepmud okay, I appreciate you understanding my point. Yes, I know there will be more people like him and that will happen. It doesn't mean its right, and I just don't understand the hero worship. Suppose I became a CEO tomorrow. Even if I made the right decisions, those 3 letters would lead to my death. That's what people in high positions will be thinking.
if someone kills you as CEO of a gardening supply company, i am with you
if someone kills a CEO of a company that derives profit from my, your, all of our debilitation, bankruptcy, and early death, you need to be with us Nick
again, for the umpteenth time:
*no one is asking you to celebrate luigi*
we are asking you to see how luigi, and more luigis, are *inevitable*
not on the rationale of "CEO bad"
but "CEOs of companies that profit from our suffering and death are bad"
@jargoggles @benroyce @deepmud I expect that people who feel like they can change things, can make the actions to help change things. What do you want, for people to go in and blow up the whitehouse or something?
to be honest nick, that is what is happening next
and then i ask you to understand that is the symptom of the problem, that is not the root problem
remember the jfk quote here
@benroyce @jargoggles @deepmud I honestly hope it doesn't happen, but if it does, I expect people to be mad about it, and it won't be pretty.
we're entering an era in this country nick where rule of law corrupted by plutocracy is becoming rule of law corrupted by authoritarian cult of personality
no, it's not going to be pretty
you, i, we all depend upon rule of law
rule of law is dying
100% agreed
but what if *no such mechanism exists*
because the plutocrats have corrupted our legislation to prevent it, to serve them not the people
that means peaceful change has been blocked, correct?
then, in your view, what *inevitably* happens
i am not asking you celebrate it, i am asking you to acknowledge an inevitability
in moral terms:
the people telling you you will hit a tree and die if you drive drunk
are not the same people cheering when you hit a tree
张殿李
@gocu54 @benroyce @deepmud @CardboardRobot One that’s sympathetic to CEOs and doesn’t give a wet stringy shit about the death of peons.
> there will be many more luigis
Luigis are the NK-cells of the body politic.
---
@benroyce @gocu54 @deepmud I would like to think that it’s still possible to hold the belief that the United States #HealthCare system is an absolute disaster and the notion that taking another life is morally wrong at the same time without disonance. I am straight up against capital punishment, no exceptions. This includes both Luigi and the guy he gunned down. I’ve seen many of the rationalizations and they just don’t fly with me. I can’t help but think that it was just plain luck that someone else didn’t get hit along with the target. Maybe I’m just a bleeding heart pacifist, but I can’t condone this as a righteous killing. No doubt he was a prick of the highest order, but as has already been said in this thread, nobody has the right to act as judge jury and executioner. That’s just capital punishment by other means.
agreeing with everything you say, is it possible luigis are inevitable in a system that debilitates, bankrupts, and kills people for profit?
in other words:
i am not asking you to celebrate luigi
i am asking to accept that luigis are inevitable
*if* peaceful change is blocked by corruption of our legislative process
again:
not asking you to cheer, just asking you to acknowledge it will happen (if peaceful change is blocked)
what do you say to that?
@benroyce @Thumper1964 @deepmud The answer is yes, it will get worse.
exactly this:
"*if* peaceful change is blocked by the corruption of our legislative process"
@benroyce @Thumper1964 @gocu54 @deepmud
i am against killing anyone, whether it be war, domestic violence, murder, the death penalty...
But, you are right. Should Ukrainians roll over & die rather than fight to protect their country?
Should the French resistance just have sat quietly by while Hitler trampled across Europe, murdering millions?
So if governments & the legal system won't act to save lives from corporations when they act illegally, or inhumanely, resulting in deaths, what then?
@sufferforme @benroyce @Thumper1964 @gocu54 @deepmud
Well, a national strike would work, and doesn't require violence.
We can even let the MAGA loyalists go to work. There's not nearly enough of them to keep the economic engine going. We could national strike without organizing picket lines.
@Uair @benroyce @Thumper1964 @gocu54 @deepmud
A national strike is definitely something that's been a long time coming - and 'could' work - but as i just implied elsewhere, too many Americans are still sitting on the sidelines when it comes to Trump... getting enough people to agree to act on anything else where they have even less self-interest at stake is not looking likely.
@Uair @benroyce @Thumper1964 @gocu54 @deepmud
And an additional thought - it doesn't seem that Trump/GOP/MAGA are too concerned about keeping the economic engine functioning - certainly as far as it pertains to ordinary people (i.e. anyone less than a millionaire)
Give it time. Trumpie is alienating /everybody/.
I'm not convinced America has time.
Hitler dismantled German Democracy within 53 days.
Trump is on track, following the same playbook, to do the same to America.
